Corey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No. It implies that forced, homosexual education
> will harm children. Not that the people
> themselves hate kids and want to destroy their
> future.

Which is not being proposed, so again, non sequitur.

Couple of things--bit delayed because of time constraints, bit off-topic because of delay, apologies all 'round. (If any of the stuff directed at you is something you'd like to take to PM, lemme know, I'll edit it out of this post and we'll go from there.)

@Trav:

And would it be really rude for me to say that the above post seriously offended me?

I'm bothered no one's answered this question yet, because it implies--to me--that no one finds anything wrong with it.

Someone's telling you she's deeply hurt. What is offensive about this? It's like being approached by a wounded person and getting angry at them for bleeding on you.

She didn't insult you, or anyone like you. She said she felt hurt. Yes, it is rude to say that you're offended.

I'm sorry you were treated that way by liberal activists when you were young. Political activists on any side can be cruel and violent towards the opposing side. I would think, though, because of this, you would know how it feels to be slandered and threatened for something you believe, and it would make you more sympathetic towards Rian, not less.

@Ebby:

It is only in a theocracy that children are/should be educated on moral issues.

This argument has cropped up time and again in the homosexuality debate, and I really don't know why. Schools have been teaching morals for years. Unless sharing with others, being kind, obeying the rules and showing respect to your teachers aren't morals anymore? I mean, this is going back a number of years (heh), but when I was in kindergarten I remember sitting in our little classroom circle and having the teacher read us books about "sharing and caring". As a more relevant example, I remember in first grade learning about Martin Luther King Jr, and being taught that it's wrong to treat people differently because of their skin color.

What if my parents had been racist? Would they have been right to pull me from school or complain? Or does it make sense, in a multicultural environment, where I will encounter people of all beliefs and nationalities, that I be taught to treat everyone with respect regardless of what my family's beliefs are? That's what non-discrimination laws and non-discrimination education do.

Anyway, you want proof that parents are still the biggest influence on kids, go look at the Phelps family. Those kids go to public school. I guarantee you that is not where they learned those beliefs.

@Corey:

And would someone tell me why this video is so offensive? It isn't graphically attacking anyone.

Dress it up in nice words and pretty pictures all you want, but trying to eliminate domestic partnership rights for a group of people is attacking them. Graphically. Viscerally. Ever been deeply insulted by a smiling person? It's kind of like that, except, you know, with longterm legal and social implications.

One of the reasons I believe that homosexuality is wrong, is because of the Holy Scriptures.

Then use that argument. ...It's flawed for a number of reasons, but it's better than trying to manipulate statistics, emotions, and any number of other things for supposed "proof" that homosexuality is a Bad Thing. Your religion disagrees with it. Fine! Good! Free speech protects your right to say that!

And for the paranoid, free speech has also protected Fred Phelps for years; unless you're planning on being worse than him, the government's not going to shut you up.

@Min:

If you're going to post a political video in a public forum, people are going to react. This isn't the first time we've had this debate on the forum, and it's not new that we have people on both sides of the fence (nor is it the reason the forum got shut down, thanks).

@Kahale:

Our position is not about hate

...Advice for writing and for life: show, don't tell.

Wow that was a really good video. I just wish people could see it. People are so quick to judge others because they are afraid of being judged themselves

...Have you read any of the rest of the thread?

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket.
~Charles Peguy

I was offended because I--unlike people on the left--am constantly being critisized for my right-ist beliefs. I was offended because I believe that homeosexuality is a sin--if you suffer from it, please, let me come alongside you and help--but don't try to tell me that it's just a lifestyle or the way you were born. Actually, let me rethink that: yes, it is the way you (btw, "you" is not directed at anyone in particular. I pay very little attention to who says what around here, unless I'm quoting them...anyway) it is the way you were born, because every human on this planet was born into sin. (by one man sin entered the world, yadayada...)

However, to look straight at something that the Bible explicitly calls out as sinful and immoral and say that it's "oh, ok, yeah, whatever..." that is wrong in a very deliberate way.
So I was offended there. I was offended that someone could take a well-meaning vid and turn it into a personal attack. I was offended that speaking a right-ist opinion leaves so many people screaming bloody murder and "you hurt my feelings."
I was offended. I have that right, just as you do. Insult me as you please, homeosexuality offends me. Get used to it.

More than offend me, it hurts me. Yes, I said that. Using your example, I would say that if this wounded person has walked up to me, I am not mad at them for "bleeding" on me--I'm hurt and angry that no one else has assisted them, and that they are taking this hurt out on me, someone who can't help them.

So. Bite me.


Pay no attention to the bird behind the curtain!!
Trav is a SHE
http://www.musings-in-a-strange-land.blogspot.com/
I am a Wraith of Yore...fear me and my power of forgotten-thread blackmail

The Traveler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was offended because I--unlike people on the
> left--am constantly being critisized for my
> right-ist beliefs.

Obviously.. for a leftist to be critizied of their rightest beleifs would be a little odd...

I was offended because I
> believe that homeosexuality is a sin--if you
> suffer from it, please, let me come alongside you
> and help

I've heard some odd stories about 'help' offered homosexuals... and last i checked they didnt look very suffering =P

--but don't try to tell me that it's just
> a lifestyle or the way you were born.

so what does that leave?

Actually,
> let me rethink that: yes, it is the way you (btw,
> "you" is not directed at anyone in particular. I
> pay very little attention to who says what around
> here, unless I'm quoting them...anyway) it is the
> way you were born, because every human on this
> planet was born into sin. (by one man sin entered
> the world, yadayada...)

lol ditto ur yadadadadadad

> However, to look straight at something that the
> Bible explicitly calls out as sinful and immoral
> and say that it's "oh, ok, yeah, whatever..." that
> is wrong in a very deliberate way.

however last i checked i dont think they see it as very explicit in the bible... adn quite a few arn't even christian =P

> So I was offended there. I was offended that
> someone could take a well-meaning vid and turn it
> into a personal attack. I was offended that
> speaking a right-ist opinion leaves so many people
> screaming bloody murder and "you hurt my
> feelings."

well meaning is still on the table....... see my.. second? post =P

> I was offended. I have that right, just as you do.
> Insult me as you please, homeosexuality offends
> me. Get used to it.

your perfectly at liberty to have that opnion

> More than offend me, it hurts me. Yes, I said
> that. Using your example, I would say that if this
> wounded person has walked up to me, I am not mad
> at them for "bleeding" on me--I'm hurt and angry
> that no one else has assisted them, and that they
> are taking this hurt out on me, someone who can't
> help them.

i thought u offered to help them in the begining?

> So. Bite me.

YIKES! homosexuality is a diesease! zombie hords of @#$%& streamign rainbow colored blood are attacking me! ieeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!! *crunch**hack**gnaw*

*cough* srry but i hear the 'illness' alot =P ur 'bite me' just triggered a random attack of nerdishness =P

EDIT: and yeah... im procrastinating from nano and feelign kinda bitchy.. srry if i took it out on you trav =(

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That which does not feel pain is dead.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 10/30/09 06:37PM by Shalista.

A'ight, I see where you're coming from. Sorry for being a pretentious jerk; occasionally it is intentional but in this case it wasn't, and reading my post over, I was out of line.

I do think you and Rian should talk, but perhaps one-on-one, where I can't poke my big obnoxious nose into your conversation.

<3 forgive?